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Re: Conspiricy theories | #2 |
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Joined: 2005/11/15
From Uk
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I thoguht i attached a deck plan?
MAybe not |
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Posted on: 2005/11/15 22:43
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #3 |
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Joined: 2005/7/3
From Small town in Manitoba, Canada
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It said Titanic on the side of the ship. And if it was a scam, who were they trying to fool? There would be no point. I can't beleive you would actually think it was a scam. That's an insult to the Titanic.
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"Three years and I've thought about nothing but Titanic. But I never really got it. I never let it in" ~Brock Lovett |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 0:59
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #4 |
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Joined: 2005/7/7
From TITANIC'S DEEPERS
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What are you talking about S-parks?
that's just a theory and for i know i'm almost sure they weren't switched if that's what you mean.. lol cyaaa |
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A Promise Can't Be Broken.. Even Death Cannot Slit Up The True Love...! |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 1:42
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #5 |
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Joined: 2003/9/14
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My own views as to the conspiracy theory are well-known. I don't think it stands up to scrutiny at all, and the cynic in me leans toward the viewpoint that it is a theory published with the view to making a large amount of money.
I wanted to post a link to an interview, where a number of points about the conspiracy theory are discussed. It's on my website: http://www.markchirnside.co.uk/MARK%20CHIRNSIDE%20INTERVIEW%20JUNE%202004.htm Extract: Quote: 'On the afternoon of Tuesday June 22nd 2004, I was interviewed for Sky 1’s then upcoming documentary on author Robin Gardiner’s ‘switch’ – or ‘conspiracy’ – theory, which explored whether the Olympic and the Titanic were swapped as part of an insurance fraud. While the documentary first aired in September 2004, due to the nature of television documentaries much material from the various interviewees did not make the final version, and none of my own interview ended up being shown. |
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Mark Chirnside, Warwickshire, England. 'RMS Olympic: Titanic's Sister.' |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 10:20
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #6 |
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Joined: 2005/11/15
From Uk
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Jillian please don't take this the wrong way but. a tin of paint could soon sort the name of the ship out.
And y was the olympic brought into port 4 weeks before to have it's port hole configaration changed so it was exactly the same as the Titanic. Jillian i will explain it. The Olympics back was broken and would only be worth a couple of thousand pouds for scrap iron. THe Titanic was worth 5000 (if sunk) So the theory goes like this. they would scuttle the olympic. Who's name had been changed and port hole config (suposadly.) They would then get 5000 pounds insted of a mear 1500. Does this make sense now jillian. And why was the RMS california steaming full ahead to the middle of the North atlantic carrying no passengers. Only 300 woolen jumpers and blankets. And why did the california stop suddenly in the middle of the north atlantic. Also why was the olympic brought in for it's propellers to be changed on the same weekend as the Titanic was supposed to have hers fitted. What relevance does this bear you will be thinking. Well every ship has it's own unique serial number. Everything onboard was stamped with this. The Titanic was 401 and the olympic 400. SO the blades could have easily been changed. You see jillian i do not want to insult anyone i am just trying to explain my thoughts. As i said beforethe olympics back was broken due to the incident with the HMS hawk. the ship was "Dead" if you like. a good inspection would have wrote the Olympic off. Oh and why was there a fire burning in Titanics coal bunkers during it's sea trials and not exstinguished.???????? and it's sea trials instead of taking a min of 2 days took only half a day. ANd why didn't the inspectors notice the emense fire below decks???????????????? Titanic soul how do you no they wern't switched? Please everyone dont take any of this as an insult to this great ship. I am mearly trying to understand and find out more about this great ship. |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 19:37
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #7 |
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Quote:
I don’t think any serious researchers believe it was. Quote: Jillian i will explain it. The Olympics back was broken and would only be worth a couple of thousand pouds for scrap iron. If by ‘back’ you mean the Olympic’s keel, running the length of the ship and essentially the ship’s ‘backbone,’ then my answer would be that it would be impossible for the keel to be broken. The keel was made up of a series of steel sections: one section could be replaced if necessary. Even if the keel was damaged, then the Olympic would not have been a write off. Quote: THe Titanic was worth 5000 (if sunk) Not at all. She was insured for $5,000,000 ($2,500,000 less than her building cost). Quote: So the theory goes like this. they would scuttle the olympic. Who's name had been changed and port hole config (suposadly.) I think ‘supposedly’ is the key word. There’s no evidence for the Olympic’s name being changed, or the porthole configuration altered in 1912. Quote: They would then get 5000 pounds insted of a mear 1500. I’m not sure where these figures come from, but they’re incorrect. Quote: And why was the RMS california steaming full ahead to the middle of the North atlantic carrying no passengers. Only 300 woolen jumpers and blankets. No one other than the conspiracy theorists believe that she was carrying woollen jumpers and blankets. Californian’s cargo manifest no longer exists, so it can’t be proven. Quote: And why did the california stop suddenly in the middle of the north atlantic. In order to avoid hitting an iceberg. Ships that didn’t stop – such as Titanic – tended to have bad experiences in ice fields. Quote: Also why was the olympic brought in for it's propellers to be changed on the same weekend as the Titanic was supposed to have hers fitted. It wasn’t. For instance, it was one blade from the port propeller that needed changing; and the dates are wrong. Titanic left dry-dock on February 17th 1912, after her propellers had been fitted; Olympic didn’t arrive in the dry-dock until March 1912. Quote: Well every ship has it's own unique serial number. Everything onboard was stamped with this. The Titanic was 401 and the olympic 400. Indeed. Parts bearing the number ‘401’ have been recovered from the wrecksite: ranging from an engine part; to a marble sink fitting; and other items from all over the ship. Quote: You see jillian i do not want to insult anyone i am just trying to explain my thoughts. As i said beforethe olympics back was broken due to the incident with the HMS hawk. the ship was "Dead" if you like. a good inspection would have wrote the Olympic off. You’re perfectly entitled to your opinions, and I for one appreciate the civilised manner in which you’ve started this debate. However, I’ll disagree with the idea that the Olympic’s back was broken. I’ve read the testimony at the enquiries into the Hawke collision, from several independent ship surveyors, and I’ve seen the photos of the damage. Quote: Oh and why was there a fire burning in Titanics coal bunkers during it's sea trials and not exstinguished.???????? Cal Haines has addressed that question in his article for www.titanic-model.com . Quote: and it's sea trials instead of taking a min of 2 days took only half a day. Titanic’s sea trials were short for a number of reasons: the fact that they had been postponed for a day due to bad weather; and the rush to get the ship to Southampton to begin provisioning for the maiden voyage. Quote: …Please everyone dont take any of this as an insult to this great ship. I am mearly trying to understand and find out more about this great ship. It’s a commendable objective. My own view is that it is vital to read the Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall book, as well as the conspiracy theorists’ writings – as the latter have been demonstrated to contain numerous inaccuracies. Many of my own views are also at the link I provided earlier. Best wishes, Mark. |
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Mark Chirnside, Warwickshire, England. 'RMS Olympic: Titanic's Sister.' |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 20:17
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #8 |
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Joined: 2005/11/15
From Uk
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MArk thank you for this i have taken on board all of your comments. As i said this is a theory. And a theory which will never be proved right or wrong.
Mark you have a great deal of knowledge on this subject. As for the ships back being broken. Yes it is just a thoery. But there is evidence. The Olympic had "Popped" many of her rivets due to the velocity at which the Hawk hit. You have to admit though there is alot of evidence for and against this argument. And if possible i would like to be able to talk more on this subject with you. Mark sorry i apologise. YEs it was 5000,000 itype far to quickly. They would then get 5000 pounds insted of a mear 1500. I am frankly embarassed that i have wrote this. ihave missed a few naughts of Please forgive me MArk. There are far to many excuses though. EG Titanic’s sea trials were short for a number of reasons: the fact that they had been postponed for a day due to bad weather; and the rush to get the ship to Southampton to begin provisioning for the maiden voyage. This MArk is an official trial a one that if shortcut. Could ultimatly end in the death of people and or the "firing" if you like of the inspectors. They would only done this for one thing. They were in on the scam. MArk i dont want to write too much on this subject so forgive me if anything has been missed out As people think all i am doing is slandering this great ship. Please do not think this. And mark all the comments i have posted are things i have never heard before. ie Also why was the olympic brought in for it's propellers to be changed on the same weekend as the Titanic was supposed to have hers fitted. I have never heard this mark i agree with you on this subject. I recently was told this by a freind. PLease dont think this is me being how can i put it "Dumb" but these are theories i have only recently heard myself! And mark as i said there are to many excuses for all these coinsidences.!!!!!! For example No one other than the conspiracy theorists believe that she was carrying woollen jumpers and blankets. Californian’s cargo manifest no longer exists, so it can’t be proven. exactly Mark it cant be proven. I personally think it is the Titanic down there, I just want to know more about thisbeautiful ship. Please forgive any erros as i type far too fast and then forget to prove read. |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 20:48
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #9 |
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Joined: 2003/9/14
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Quote:
I agree with you in part, but I disagree that the conspiracy theory will never be proved wrong. In my opinion, every knowledgeable researcher in command of all the necessary sources will believe that the theory is false; because so much of it has been demonstrated to be inaccurate. Quote: Yes it is just a thoery. But there is evidence. The Olympic had "Popped" many of her rivets due to the velocity at which the Hawk hit. That is evidence of damage to the Olympic, yes; but not evidence about the ship’s keel at all. The conspiracy theorists don’t mention, for instance, that Hawke’s speed decreased from 16 to 8 knots prior to the collision (according to the Hawke’s captain’s own account), which reduces the amount of damage Olympic would have suffered. As I said, every independent expert who testified in 1911 agreed on the damage assessment of Olympic – and that assessment differs from the conspiracy theory. I'd like to quote Harry Roscoe's testimony. He was a senior ship surveyor and does not mention any keel damage whatsoever: ‘2900. Mr. Laing. Dealing with the Olympic first; I daresay I may lead about this; no doubt, we are agreed about this. Was there a large triangular hole extending from immediately above the D deck to above 15 feet below that deck? A. Yes… 2904. Q. A large triangular hole immediately above the D deck and about 15 feet below the deck. And was there a large penetration in D deck extending inwards about 8 feet? A. Yes. 2905. Q. Is that where the bows of the other vessel had entered? A. Yes, the upper portion that was about 14 feet long, I think, from memory. 2906. Q. Extending in? A. About 8 feet. 2907. Q. The next deck you come to is the E-deck. Was that cut into? A. Yes. 2908. Q. In the same way, but to a lesser degree? A. Yes. 2909. Q. Did the damage continue below the waterline; I think you surveyed that after she got into drydock? A. Yes. 2910. Q. Were the frames, beams, and stringers, broken and bent around the hole that you have been just describing? A. Yes. 2911. Q….Now with regard to below the waterline. After she got into drydock, did you find the damage similar in character, but inverted in shape in F and G [decks]? A. Broadly speaking, that is so. 2912. Q. Was the hole below deck pierced by the Hawke’s ram? A. I think so... 2915. Q. And did the broken and indented plating extend over these decks D, E, F, and G? A. Yes. 2916. Q. Did the penetration cease between G, and the orlop deck? A. It did. 2917. Q. Was the ship’s side scored at all? A. Yes, aft of the hole, for about 38 feet… 2953. Q. Now the extent of the penetration into the Olympic was, I think you have given it to me? A. The hole measured 6 feet 8 inches to 8 feet in athwart ship line.’ There's no mention of keel damage, and he testifies that the damage extended eight feet or less into Olympic. To reach the keel, you'd need to penetrate forty-five feet in, and thirty feet below where Hawke hit the Olympic. Quote: You have to admit though there is alot of evidence for and against this argument. And if possible i would like to be able to talk more on this subject with you. I’d like to discuss the theory, time permitting. In my view, much of the conspiracy theorists’ ‘evidence’ is flawed, misinterpreted or inaccurate. Quote: This MArk is an official trial a one that if shortcut. Could ultimatly end in the death of people and or the "firing" if you like of the inspectors. I disagree. Quote: PLease dont think this is me being how can i put it "Dumb" but these are theories i have only recently heard myself! I don’t think you’re being ‘dumb’ at all, and there’s nothing to apologise for. You’ve been told a theory, and you’ve asked us about it. Quote: And mark as i said there are to many excuses for all these coinsidences.!!!!!! I don’t quite understand your point. Quote: I personally think it is the Titanic down there, I just want to know more about this beautiful ship. I believe it’s the Titanic too. Don’t worry about typing quickly, we all do it sometimes. Best wishes, Mark. |
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Mark Chirnside, Warwickshire, England. 'RMS Olympic: Titanic's Sister.' |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 21:06
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Re: Conspiricy theories | #10 |
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Joined: 2005/11/15
From Uk
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Mark, I agree with evrything you are saying. Evry peice of evidence for these theorys can be proven wrong.
And vise versa to some degree. I truly belive it is the Titanic that sunk. But looking at these theroys dampened my enthusiasm some what. I hope We can discuss this further. My name is Shun by the way and i look forward to this conversation. There is one more thing Mark, Why was the outer skin of the Olympic damaged almost identiccally to the damge suffred on the Titanic. This is another theory, and there is some evidence to prove this. Thanks mark. all the best Shaun Ps i am also from england Mark. North East - Durham/Teeside. |
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Posted on: 2005/11/16 21:43
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