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  •  lilcandycane
      lilcandycane
raising the titanic
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to me raising it would be very disrespectful to those who died, the titanic is thier tomb and should be left where it is...we have pieces from it and stories which to me are far more valuable....just because it happened over 90 years ago and most of the people with 1st hand accounts are gone does not make it right....like they say a picture is worth a thousand words
Posted on: 2006/9/20 17:47
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  •  MGY Friend
      MGY Friend
Re: raising the titanic
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There is no way the world would pay for the construction of a large enough fresh water tank to put the Titanic in, along with the other preservation tecniques and chemical. And that would be the only way to totally save the Titanic from her untimate demise. But we are talking probably billions of dollars.

But even if we could find a way to get the funding and technology to raise the remaining hull sections, the Titanic would still suffer from large amounts of damage from her trip up to the surface, as well as her trip back to port. Her interiors would probably crumble to dust, as they are already fragile enough as it is. Can you imagine if they started to dry out?

I would probably cry if I saw her bow section falling apart, rotting away in the sun, and know that us humans did that.

Titanic still holds her honor and nobility the way she is now, still standing upright on the ocean bottom.

Yes, Titanic will be gone forever some day, but it is her destiny. That is what is part of her lasting legacy: A reminder to us not to put ourselves above the powers of God and nature, because if we do, we will be utterly destroyed and taken off the face of the earth, just like the tower of babel.

I will become emotional if I see her finally cave in my lifetime, but I will be comforted at the same time that her story will still live on and educate us.
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"Why is it the ship beats the waves
when the waves are so many and
the ship is one?
The reason is that ship
has a purpose".

Sir Winston Churchill


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Posted on: 2006/9/20 18:52
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  •  Tigro
      Tigro
Re: raising the titanic
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It's very sad, but the Titanic will one day be unrecognizable, just a pile of rusty rubble on the ocean floor. Todays salvage technology and the hostile environment in which she rests ensures an inevitable and tragic end for the "ship of dreams".

But it's no good us dreaming about raising her... the hulk is too far underwater, too deeply buried in the silt on the seabed, and too badly corroded to survive any attempt at salvage.

Remember when George Tulloch tried to raise the "Big Piece"?

A single piece of hull plating weighing about twenty tons was almost salvaged by attaching huge flexible tanks of diesel fuel to it. The diesel fuel, being lighter than water, raised the chunk of hull alright, but the problems of retrieving it from where it hung just below the surface on the lines connecting it to the the tanks proved too difficult.

The "Big Piece" broke free, and now lies once more in the darkness and cold of the North Atlantic, far from its original resting place. And we can be thankful it didn't land on the wreck when it plumetted to the bottom...

Think about it. Twenty tons of hull plating was too much to handle. How about twenty thousand-odd tons of bow section?

Then there are the moral questions too. I'm willing to bet that the Titanic will crumble on the ocean floor. Sad - but unchangeable.
Posted on: 2006/9/22 14:08
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  •  MGY Friend
      MGY Friend
Re: raising the titanic
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Quote:
The "Big Piece" broke free, and now lies once more in the darkness and cold of the North Atlantic, far from its original resting place.


Actually, "the big piece" was eventually raised on a second expedition. This time there was no cruise ship full of people waiting to gawk at it.

One of the sad points about finally raising it was that when they finally pulled it out of the water and got it on deck, they did not have it under full control (not enough lines on it) and the sheer weight of it made it bend in on itself at the bottom.
_________________
"Why is it the ship beats the waves
when the waves are so many and
the ship is one?
The reason is that ship
has a purpose".

Sir Winston Churchill


www.mrmarshall.proboards62.com
Posted on: 2006/9/22 14:21
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  •  Downward78
      Downward78
Re: raising the titanic
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The Titanic is a Memorial not a tomb, a tomb would mean that there were bodies inside when there is not. Its a marker and a symbol of innocent people being killed by others arrogance. There are a ton of factors that led to her demise and if you think about it, the facination of the ship and her passengers all derive from disbelief. There has been a ton of ships that have sanken and a ton of people who died. Yet this seems to be the most important sinking. Because of nature, literally, and figuratively. the perfect conditions that were laid out before the vessel, calm water, an iceberg uncharacteristically that far away from its home. The Ice warnings so arrogantly and stupidly ignored, the conflict of "what would i have done?" against the mismanagement of the life boats. I believe it's not as much of the people who died its about the foolish circumstances surrounding their deaths. Ismay, Smith- one an arrogant fool the other a sheep who should've known better. I say let her sleep no more forever. no raising no salvation just resting in peace.

btw this sandwich i'm eating is delicious and may or may not have had something to do with this rant.

love,

Downward78
Posted on: 2006/9/22 18:16
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  •  lilcandycane
      lilcandycane
Re: raising the titanic
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it is a tomb...just because a body decomposes doesn't make their grave disapear...and yes ismay did save himself and it is easy for us to say,"i never would do that" we were not in his shoes so we don't really know what we would do. Please be a little more understanding...don't slam those who died we can learn from their mistakes...
Posted on: 2006/9/22 18:51
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  •  Tigro
      Tigro
Re: raising the titanic
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MGY Friend, thanks for the updated info on the "Big Piece". The point remains though - a comparatively small piece of the hullcaused such problems, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that theship could never be raised, even if we ignore the moral/human aspects of such an act.

As for it being a grave, well, I'm not sure. Apart from the fact that there is no evidence that any human remains actually survived the Titanic's plunge into the abyss and reached the sea floor, archeologists routinely explore ancient graves like Egyptian or Mayan tombs, and nobody thinks too much about unwrapping a mummy to find out what techniques were used to preserve it... The casts made of the Pompeii victims by injecting liquid plaster into the spaces under the hardened ash detritus where their bodies once lay... I could go on and on. So, is the grave desecration question merely a numerical one? Any comments are welcome.
Posted on: 2006/9/28 10:18
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  •  MGY Friend
      MGY Friend
Re: raising the titanic
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Tigro, your point is well taken.

Dr. Ballard stated once that there was a difference in finding an Egyptian tomb and taking artifacts from Titanic in that we already know large amounts of data from ships like Titanic and the year 1912 in general (as Titanic has two other sisters which we have artifacts from). This is unlike ancient Egypt where we do not have large amounts of documented history or information, and therefore, each new find adds to our knowledge.

I believe it is a grave, just like the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor, or HMS Royal Oak in Scapa Flow, and indeed, there might be some human remains down there.

If you read "Ghosts of the Titanic" by Charles Pellegrino, he states that human bone fragments and pieces of clothing may still survive in the "anoxic beds" around the stern section.

One time he was helping clean the "muck and grime" off a soup toureen that was salvaged, and found some bone fragments to his horror (They turned out to be animal bones, like duck or something, as if part of the last meal on Titanic). Therefore, that part of the stern (at or near the anoxic beds) are off limits to further salvage.
_________________
"Why is it the ship beats the waves
when the waves are so many and
the ship is one?
The reason is that ship
has a purpose".

Sir Winston Churchill


www.mrmarshall.proboards62.com
Posted on: 2006/9/28 14:21
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  •  HellenTurnquist
      HellenTurnquist
Re: raising the titanic
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back to when everyone was saying that the crew was arrogant or something like that, it's like a test. Before the test you think you know all the material, you're ready to ace it. You've studied, made up a list of things that could be asked and how to answer them. But then you are taking the test and... you get a question you didn't think the teacher would ask. Now normally, if you had the time and knew ahead of time you could answer it. But you didn't think of it, so you don't know the answer. You have to guess. Does that make sense.
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Posted on: 2006/9/28 21:51
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  •  MGY Friend
      MGY Friend
Re: raising the titanic
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Tigro,

I have already talked about this on past posts, so I apoligize for the other members reading this again.

But I wanted to state my point that I am not totally against salvaging all artifacts.

When I was younger, I thought along the lines that is was disrespectful to rummage around down there and disturb the great tomb. I believe this still to an extent today.

I think salvaging such artifacts like the ship's bell, china, hull plating, and the running light from the mast is not worth much, because really, what does these objects really teach us (other than the human tragedy).

Although I find that taking artifacts like pieces of luggage can be along this same line, I do make one acception to this:

I have come to my own acceptance of the salvage of paper artifacts like personal letters, postcards, and so forth.

We all love the Titanic and want to preserve her history, and furthermore, we want to continue to learn all we can about the passengers to commemorate their memory.

Where would the memory of Ann Frank be without her diary? She would be just another forgotten name in the haulocost without it.

I believe these surviving paper documents in leather suit cases that still have writing on them are absolute treasures in that the dead can still tell us something about them, their daily lives, their plans for the holidays, their love lifes, and so forth (Kind of like what Brock said on the movie : "Should this drawing remained unseen on the ocean floor for eternity?")

Although these paper artifacts are very personal, I do not believe they are too personal and do not exploit the passengers deaths. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is more to be learned from a passenger's letter that putting his or her reading glasses on display.

Does anyone else agree or disagree?
_________________
"Why is it the ship beats the waves
when the waves are so many and
the ship is one?
The reason is that ship
has a purpose".

Sir Winston Churchill


www.mrmarshall.proboards62.com
Posted on: 2006/9/29 14:46
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