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  Titanic and the Californian

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  •  Buff Egan
      Buff Egan
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#31

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Most experts estimate the Californian was between 4 and 8 miles away. Both the Titanic and Californain could see each others lights. the Big problem I have with Lord is why he didn't wake up Evans. Lord never Captained another Ship after the Titanic Disaster. Lord resigned from the Leyland Line in August of the same year. Some reports say he was dismissed. Although he had not been tried or convicted of any offence, he was viewed as a scapegoat, and rightly so in my opinion.
Posted on: 2007/6/1 23:25
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Re: Titanic and the Californian
#32

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God man... The Californian can not go as fast as Titanic did. they would take about the same tme as the Carpathia because The Iceberg Field would have sunk the Californian as well. and MANY SHIPS didn't use the radio. and When they saw fire works what do you think someone would say about the UNSINKABLE ship?

"Why would a ship like that shoot fire works?" *A night to remember*

So After Decades*thanks to MGY for helping me understand what happened* People Always said it was the Californians fualt even though there was nothing they could do.
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Posted on: 2007/6/2 4:07
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#33

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Quote:

Buff Egan wrote:
Most experts estimate the Californian was between 4 and 8 miles away. Both the Titanic and Californain could see each others lights. the Big problem I have with Lord is why he didn't wake up Evans. Lord never Captained another Ship after the Titanic Disaster.


-No. That's false I do believe. What experts have said 4-8 miles away? I'd like to see some facts on that. The link I posted goes through a lot of details on where they lie and none leans towards anything that close.

-Yes, they could see each other's lights, we've been through that.

-Why didn't Lord wake Evans? Probably because Stone told him only of one rocket and not they were throwing stars. He never suggested distress even though he may have felt it. Perhaps if he was more convincing and descriptive, Lord would have came to the bridge or had Evans woken to investigate on the "white rockets." It wasn't until Stewart suggested to do so after 5am that Evans was woken.

-You believe it was rightfully so that they should have been make a scapegoat? Do you know what a scapegoat is? That means they are being blaming in place of others mistakes and wrong doings. Like instead of blaming the Board of Trade for not having enough boats or the White Star Line for not conducting boat drills or propaganda of saying she was "unsinkable." They instead claimed "Lord and the officers on the Californian could have saved most or all lives." So people believed that instead of finding fault on The Board of Trade. It probably in Lord Mersey's stupid mind, suited much better to blame Lord than ruin several Board of Trade's members reputations.

-And Lord served on the Lawther Latta from 1913 to 1927 as a captain where he retired a wealthy man. I have no idea where you gathered that information from that he never made captain again.
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"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/6/4 2:49
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  •  MGY Friend
      MGY Friend
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#34

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There have been may articles written on "the rockets". Were they properly displayed as distress signals as accordance for the law, were they more aparently "company signals"?

I can agree that due to the shady laws on what a distress rocket should be and look like (you can read about them at the Titanic Historical Society online), it is reasonable for Stone, Gibson, or Lord to almost dismiss them as possibly being company signals or such.

The problem I have is their lack of brainstorming in regards to thinking about the number of rockets fired. Oh Lord, what was it? 6 or 8 rockets?

Here is how I look at it. If they believed that a ship was signalling another vessel, OK, after one or two rockets fired.

Maybe it is because I know what happened today (in hindsight), but it seems to me like more thaught could have been put on the amount of rockets fired.

I wonder if even the slightest of small thoughts ever crossed their minds that the number of rockets fired could have meant that the ship in question was in fact trying to call for assistance.

Rockets were used for company signals, but they were also used for distress, and I think both uses of them should have been thought about more that night (if they were indeed not).
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"Why is it the ship beats the waves
when the waves are so many and
the ship is one?
The reason is that ship
has a purpose".

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Posted on: 2007/6/4 18:56
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#35

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Stone on the Californian said he saw 8 white rockets overall. He said that at the inquiry. If we look up what kind of man Stone was, he was very passive and easy going and lacked self confidence. Lord was stern and serious 100% of the time, no sense of humor what so ever. During the firing of the rockets, Stone probably would rather have not tried to argue with Lord that there may have been a problem. I mean, why send Gibson down to report what was going on the middle watch? Why not do it yourself? Especially if you think there is a problem. I really think if Officer Stewart was on the bridge, more would have been done to invest the firing of the rockets. Stone also thought the mystery ship was moving to the Southwest, so he simply assumed she was trying to find her way around the ice field. That, she was signaling to warn them of the ice. He later told his wife that what he saw that night in 1912 were indeed distress signals. Also, he kept getting no response to the Morse lamp, thinking the rockets were there way of signaling back. So why the delay and no suggestion to his captain that "This ship is signaling." Or "Are they company rockets? - No Sir, I feel she's in distress..." Why nothing to push Lord from the chartroom? I do feel if he was more informative, Lord would have come to the bridge. The man was sleeping in the chartroom with his boots on and was fully clothed.
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/6/6 3:13
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  •  Buff Egan
      Buff Egan
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#36

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There is No getting away from the fact that Lord has series questions to answer. Whatever about he saving all the Titanic passengers if he only saved 1 it would have been a success, but he made absolutely no effort and taht is inexusable.
Posted on: 2007/6/8 15:41
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#37

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Quote:

Buff Egan wrote:
There is No getting away from the fact that Lord has series questions to answer. Whatever about he saving all the Titanic passengers if he only saved 1 it would have been a success, but he made absolutely no effort and taht is inexusable.


-Alright, Let me paint it to you this way. The Californian, if had left after the first distress call on the wireless, would still not have arrived till about 3:15am at best. No one else extra would have been saved. Anyone that hadn't made it into the lifeboats died from the cold by then. SO, the only change would have been that Lord would have been knighted and we would have found another scapegoat. Also to keep in mind. The Californian could not have had fit all 705 survivors due to the gross tonnage that she possessed. They would have had to wait for the Carpathia anyways I would imagine.
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/6/9 16:56
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
#38

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Does anyone agree with my conclusions?
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/7/26 23:28
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