Does anyone agree with my conclusions?

Quote:

-Alright, Let me paint it to you this way. The Californian, if had left after the first distress call on the wireless, would still not have arrived till about 3:15am at best. No one else extra would have been saved. Anyone that hadn't made it into the lifeboats died from the cold by then. SO, the only change would have been that Lord would have been knighted and we would have found another scapegoat. Also to keep in mind. The Californian could not have had fit all 705 survivors due to the gross tonnage that she possessed. They would have had to wait for the Carpathia anyways I would imagine.

There is No getting away from the fact that Lord has series questions to answer. Whatever about he saving all the Titanic passengers if he only saved 1 it would have been a success, but he made absolutely no effort and taht is inexusable.

Stone on the Californian said he saw 8 white rockets overall. He said that at the inquiry. If we look up what kind of man Stone was, he was very passive and easy going and lacked self confidence. Lord was stern and serious 100% of the time, no sense of humor what so ever. During the firing of the rockets, Stone probably would rather have not tried to argue with Lord that there may have been a problem. I mean, why send Gibson down to report what was going on the middle watch? Why not do it yourself? Especially if you think there is a problem. I really think if Officer Stewart was on the bridge, more would have been done to invest the firing of the rockets. Stone also thought the mystery ship was moving to the Southwest, so he simply assumed she was trying to find her way around the ice field. That, she was signaling to warn them of the ice. He later told his wife that what he saw that night in 1912 were indeed distress signals. Also, he kept getting no response to the Morse lamp, thinking the rockets were there way of signaling back. So why the delay and no suggestion to his captain that "This ship is signaling." Or "Are they company rockets? - No Sir, I feel she's in distress..." Why nothing to push Lord from the chartroom? I do feel if he was more informative, Lord would have come to the bridge. The man was sleeping in the chartroom with his boots on and was fully clothed.

There have been may articles written on "the rockets". Were they properly displayed as distress signals as accordance for the law, were they more aparently "company signals"?

I can agree that due to the shady laws on what a distress rocket should be and look like (you can read about them at the Titanic Historical Society online), it is reasonable for Stone, Gibson, or Lord to almost dismiss them as possibly being company signals or such.

The problem I have is their lack of brainstorming in regards to thinking about the number of rockets fired. Oh Lord, what was it? 6 or 8 rockets?

Here is how I look at it. If they believed that a ship was signalling another vessel, OK, after one or two rockets fired.

Maybe it is because I know what happened today (in hindsight), but it seems to me like more thaught could have been put on the amount of rockets fired.

I wonder if even the slightest of small thoughts ever crossed their minds that the number of rockets fired could have meant that the ship in question was in fact trying to call for assistance.

Rockets were used for company signals, but they were also used for distress, and I think both uses of them should have been thought about more that night (if they were indeed not).

Quote:

-No. That's false I do believe. What experts have said 4-8 miles away? I'd like to see some facts on that. The link I posted goes through a lot of details on where they lie and none leans towards anything that close.

-Yes, they could see each other's lights, we've been through that.

-Why didn't Lord wake Evans? Probably because Stone told him only of one rocket and not they were throwing stars. He never suggested distress even though he may have felt it. Perhaps if he was more convincing and descriptive, Lord would have came to the bridge or had Evans woken to investigate on the "white rockets." It wasn't until Stewart suggested to do so after 5am that Evans was woken.

-You believe it was rightfully so that they should have been make a scapegoat? Do you know what a scapegoat is? That means they are being blaming in place of others mistakes and wrong doings. Like instead of blaming the Board of Trade for not having enough boats or the White Star Line for not conducting boat drills or propaganda of saying she was "unsinkable." They instead claimed "Lord and the officers on the Californian could have saved most or all lives." So people believed that instead of finding fault on The Board of Trade. It probably in Lord Mersey's stupid mind, suited much better to blame Lord than ruin several Board of Trade's members reputations.

-And Lord served on the Lawther Latta from 1913 to 1927 as a captain where he retired a wealthy man. I have no idea where you gathered that information from that he never made captain again.

God man... The Californian can not go as fast as Titanic did. they would take about the same tme as the Carpathia because The Iceberg Field would have sunk the Californian as well. and MANY SHIPS didn't use the radio. and When they saw fire works what do you think someone would say about the UNSINKABLE ship?

"Why would a ship like that shoot fire works?" *A night to remember*

So After Decades*thanks to MGY for helping me understand what happened* People Always said it was the Californians fualt even though there was nothing they could do.

Most experts estimate the Californian was between 4 and 8 miles away. Both the Titanic and Californain could see each others lights. the Big problem I have with Lord is why he didn't wake up Evans. Lord never Captained another Ship after the Titanic Disaster. Lord resigned from the Leyland Line in August of the same year. Some reports say he was dismissed. Although he had not been tried or convicted of any offence, he was viewed as a scapegoat, and rightly so in my opinion.

MGY--To answer your question about drifting. It would be possible that the lifeboats were moving around pending on if they were moving or not. The Labrador current was moving both the Californian and the Titanic. So I do believe the boats could have drifted from the sinking position. When the Carpathia arrived and spotted the lifeboats, many of course took a bit to row up to her. I believe the last rescue was at 8:30am. They began taking passengers on at 6:10am.

I doubt that the Californian was more than 12-15 miles away based on you wouldn't be able to see the Titanic based on the curvature of the Earth. The Californian had a very powerful Morse lamp that could be seen from 10 miles away as Lord stated. That could explain why both were signaling like crazy and getting no responses. If you check that link I posted above, it will give you a good idea on plotting where the ships were. The man who constructs the website went to Harvard I believe. He's very knowledgeable on the issue of the Titanic and the Californian. Enjoy.

Buff, TSstudios and MGY Friend....The Californian was probably at most 12 miles away. I do believe in my research that twelve is the most probable number. Captain Lord claims that his ship was 19 miles away from the sinking and stood by that. We know that his coordinates are fairly accurate. The Titanic's however were not right....in fact they were 7 miles off of the 41 46 N, 50 14 W degrees. That makes 12 miles between the two. Also, both moved in the current at the same pace, so any movement of the ships positions would also alter the same. I have said many times, I do believe that they failed to respond properly to the distress calls. But think about this way, the Californian had no idea what was going on 12 miles away. When they heard, they did whatever they could to assist the Carpathia and search for survivors. I doubt it would have mattered anyways.


Now lets say that the Californian responded after the first CQD. That would have been at 12:15am. It took them about 2 1/2 to 3 hours in the daylight to reach the Carpathia. Although they traveled through the ice field first, and took a longer way. With the ice so thick and pack, in the dark would make it even harder to steer through the ice that surrounded them. Also keep in mind, the Californian was a single screw, 13 knot ship. Even if they did everything in their power, it would have still been too late. They perhaps could have arrived just has the vessel was plunging to the bottom(2:15am...if we go by the 2 hour rescue, which is unlikely).

Here's a quote from an author who has done some research on the rescue by The Californian:

"In reality, if Californian had raced to the site of the disaster, it would only have rescued Captain Lord's reputation and robbed Arthur Henry Rostron of his moment in fame. At top speed, Californian would have arrived just at the time of Titanic's stern pointed into the sky like a black finger of death. A few nearly frozen survivors might have been plucked from the water-but only a few. Survivors bobbing in the lifeboats might have still been waiting in the first light of dawn for rescue, because retrieving lifeboats in the darkness would have been dangerous."

-The Last Log of the Titanic" written by David Brown.

Also check out this website: http://home.earthlink.net/~dnitzer/Frameset.html

If you scroll down the left side toolbar, you'll see a Bold "Updates."
Click on "Maps of the Area" to get an idea where the two lay that night.

Hope this helps!