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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Titanic and the Californian
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There has been much debate over the years of was the Californian to blame for the lives lost on the Titanic that night in 1912. I will share my opinions after some people reply. But what are your thoughts on this matter?
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"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/15 4:52
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  •  torrence27
      torrence27
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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That very well may be true. From what I've read the Californian was very aware of the icebergs in the area and stopped around 10 miles shy of that area. Titanic however, sailed full speed right into the iceberg zone and hitting one, as we know. Aparently the Californian saw the flare rockets being shot off by the Titanic, but the captain dismissed them as friendly greetings, I guess it was customary for ships of the same line to do this, but I refuse to believe that anyone on the Californian thought the rockets were friendly; this is apparently the same ship that sent Titanic the iceberg warings, so they had to know that this was indeed a real plea for help. The Californian was also less than ten miles away from the Titanic, unlike the Caparthia, who was about 58 miles away. It makes mad everytime I think about it. Anyways that what I know about the Californian, which was captained by Stanley Lord.
Posted on: 2007/4/15 5:17
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Re: Titanic and the Californian
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wow. i never heard of the californian. but reading that i will say its the californian to blame. it could have saved everyone from possibly a little sterage to 1st class. Bloody *curses alot*
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Posted on: 2007/4/15 17:57
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  •  LeoPlumtree
      LeoPlumtree
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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Quote:

DANNYJ wrote:
wow. i never heard of the californian. but reading that i will say its the californian to blame. it could have saved everyone from possibly a little sterage to 1st class. Bloody *curses alot*


Consider this article before making up your mind...

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/item/1509/
Posted on: 2007/4/15 19:16
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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I'll give an overview of my research conducted on both ships.

At 10:21pm, on April 14th, 1912 the Californian was a Leyland Line vessel heading for Boston. She stopped at this time due to a large ice field ahead of her path. Lord later went to see Cyril Evans, the ships wireless operator. Lord asked what ships were near by? Evans told him "only Titanic." Lord instructed him to warn the Titanic that they were surrounded by ice for the night.

At 10:55pm, Evans relied the message "Held up for the night, surrounded by ice." Before finishing, Jack Phillips on the Titanic cut him off saying "Shut up, shut up, I'm busy. I'm talking with Cape Race." Evans complies and listens in until 11:30pm, before retiring for the night. 10 minutes later the Titanic would crash into an iceberg.

Shortly, after 11pm, Captain Lord and Third Officer Charles Groves saw a vessel come into view from the Southeast. Lord thought her to be a tramp steamer(similar to the Californian) about 5 miles away, Groves thought her to be a passenger liner due to the amount of lights.

At 11:40pm on the Californian, Charles Groves observed the mystery ship stop. He tried to use the Morse lamp to contact her from 11:50pm to 12:10am, but received no response.

At 12:10am, Groves was relived by Second Officer Herbert Stone. Groves pointed out the mystery ship and told him he got no response from her. Groves then embarked to the wireless room. Seeing as Evans was asleep, he turned on the set, because he liked to fiddle around with it. He heard nothing, so he shut off the set and went below.

At 12:45am, Stone walking up and down the deck enjoying the clear night saw a flash in the sky. He assumed it was a shooting star. However, when he witness another 5-10 minutes later, he realized they were rockets. Stone would go on to see 5 white rockets before being joined by Apprentice Officer James Gibson.

At 1:10am, Stone called down to Lord in the chartroom. That he had seen 3/4 white rockets fired from the ship. (Later Lord would saw he only knew of 1 rocket fired). Lord asked Stone if they were company rockets? Stone replied that he "didn't know." Lord advised him to call her on the Morse lamp and find out her name. Stone did so, yet received no reply again.

After this point, Gibson was now joining Stone in the attempt to contact the vessel. Gibson saw 3 rockets himself, while looking in his binoculars he saw them throwing stars before they disappeared. Stone made a comment "Take a look at her now Gibson, she looks queer now." Gibson replied "She appears to have to big end out of the water." At 1:45am, the 8th and final rocket was sent from Titanic.

Around 2am, Stone told Gibson to go down to the chartroom and tell Captain Lord "That the mystery ship appears to be altering her bearing to the Southwest, and fired 8 white rockets total." Although, Captain Lord claims to have vaguely remembered this and just recalling Gibson close his door.

Upon arriving back on the bridge, it was roughly 2:05am. Stone was observing her still through his binoculars said "I can just make out her mast light....Oh she disappeared."

At 3:30am, Stone and Gibson would see the rockets fired by the Carpathia. These were not reported to Captain Lord.

Around 5am, Chief Officer George Stewart, woke Cyril Evans to inquire about the firing of the rockets during the night. They soon found out the Titanic had sunk. At 5:15am they were underway and headed for her last know position.

At 8:30am, they arrived next to the Carpathia.
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"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/16 1:18
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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In conclusion, you might be saying, well they are responsible for not saving all the lives on Titanic. WRONG. The Californian was a 447 ft long vessel. It could hold about 47 passengers if needed. And a gross tonnage of 6,200. The Californian had about 53 crewmen on board during this voyage.

The Californian has been blamed all these years. However, lets say for example after the first rocket, they proceeded to help the Titanic. That would be 12:45am. It took the Californian 3 hours to reach the distress position in the daylight, although they took the longer route to get there. In the dark would have been much harder. So lets say, they went the easy route and it took 2 hours at best(In the dark). That's still 2:45am. What could a much smaller vessel with limited crew do for 1523 lives? At this point, people floating in the water would have already passed away from the cold. I don't see how much could be done.

Another example, lets say they embarked after the first distress signal. That would be 12:15am. Lets use the 2 hour example again. Saying they could still see the vessel to guide them. The Californian was still a 13 knot vessel. We make the realization they had to travel at about 12 miles and to avoid ice none the less. Again, I don't see even if they arrived at 2:15am, what use it would have been. Lets also remember they were stopped. By the time they actually got underway and two hours to get there(persay). Remember, that's the arrival time. They would still have to lower their boats into the water and row to where she sunk. Now you have 1,500 people trying to get into the 6-8 boats the Californian possessed. Certainly not all the lives could be saved.

However, I will conclude with the fact I do believe the Californian did fail to respond properly to the distress signals. I feel more action should have be taken by the crew. Even though very little difference would have been made. I think it's wrong however, to blame the Californian for the lives lost on the Titanic. I do see them as a scapegoat. Also, I do not agree with any third ship theory. I believe the Californian was looking at the Titanic, and the Titanic was looking at the Californian that fateful night.
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/16 1:47
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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And sorry for my poor spelling mistakes. In the second one above. haha. What does anyone think??
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"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/16 4:31
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  •  Captain Dan
      Captain Dan
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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I'll have to do a bit of re-reading, but wasn't the Californian surrounded by ice at the time as well?

Daniel
Posted on: 2007/4/16 15:58
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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Yes. Actually if we look at testimonies by Ernest Gill, he couldn't sleep because the ship was grinding against the ice when she was spinning. That's why when he went to the top deck to smoke he saw the "mystery ship fire a rocket." That's why the thought that she could have easily gotten to the Titanic is ridiculous. Also, Captain Rostron(sp) of the Carpathia had to dodge 6 icebergs himself. When he got to the coordinates, he was simply amazed that the a ship was speeding through that much ice.
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/16 18:36
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  •  Mac G
      Mac G
Re: Titanic and the Californian
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I recommend this site if you really are interested in this discussion of the mystery ship.

http://home.earthlink.net/~dnitzer/Frameset.html

Great Site^
_________________
"Looked like a rocket sir."

"Yes, I wonder why a ship like that would want to fire a rocket?"

(A Night to Remember, Stone & Gibson)
Posted on: 2007/4/16 18:38
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