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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #11 |
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Joined: 2005/3/14
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that's pretty smart thinking. what do u mean that the first-class passengers wouldn't come back? that they would find another ship?
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Posted on: 2005/5/11 10:09
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edward9139
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #12 |
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1st class generally is a "trip" vovage. They may travel to and even possibly return on the same ship is it is available but that is it. Remember that this is 1912, immigrants are POURING into United States during this time. Shipping companies compeated fiercly to win the incoming immigrants services. As they would be paying for entire families and extended relations to be brought to America. Then you have one family telling entire communities and so forth of a ship with very pleasant sleeping quarters, great meals, and excellant prices for families. The money was made on 3rd class transport, 1st class was costly and the return on the dollar was not there. Look at the good food these Irish, Polish, and other European immigrants received on this ship! Definitly better than they ate at home. Attached file:  3rd.jpg (97.89 KB) |
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Posted on: 2005/5/11 14:45
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #13 |
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some of them probly ate that stuff back in europe or wherever they came from. it was just filled with mealworms and maggots. also none of the stuff at home was probly fresh even when it was straight from the store
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Posted on: 2005/5/12 10:22
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #14 |
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my God man are you rambling on just to add up posts? |
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Posted on: 2005/5/12 23:20
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #15 |
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no. what did u want me to put??? i was adding to the subject.
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Posted on: 2005/5/13 10:09
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #16 |
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Well it would be nice if you posted facts or questioned opinions or even started a indepth discussion, but what you posted was pure childish. Sorry but I can't tolerate much childs play today. |
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Posted on: 2005/5/15 3:03
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #17 |
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Hi Captian Jack, Several years back, I think it was Daniel Klistorner who did an analysis of the profit that might be earned by shipping companies. I don't have the figures he used in front of me (it's 5.30 a.m. and perhaps I should be in bed?  ), as the average fare for each class would presumably be the ideal measurement. However, if we take Olympic's 1911 minimum first class fare of £25 10 shillings; the minimum second class fare of £12 10 shillings; and the minimum third class fare of £7 (the latter £437 even in 2002 British currency), then it becomes clear that it's really a myth that the shipping companies earned their profit mainly on the third class trade. For instance, it would take three third class passengers paying a fare of £7 to generate revenue of £21; and one first class passenger paying a minimum fare of £25 10 shillings alone would generate more revenue for the company. Now, these figures naturally don't account for profit, as the expense figures would logically vary from class to class. However, it does seem clear (and I do remember that Daniel demonstrated this quite comprehensively), that you would have needed to have carried far more third class passengers than there was capacity for on Olympic and Titanic in order for them to generate more profit than you get from first class passengers. While it's true that the third class trade was coveted by shipping lines, in my view the idea that they earned more for the company than even a small complement of first class passengers doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence. Best wishes, Mark. |
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Mark Chirnside, Warwickshire, England. 'RMS Olympic: Titanic's Sister.' |
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Posted on: 2005/5/15 4:31
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #18 |
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This is true if you use only the Titanic's maiden voyage figures and expect that figure to be constant because on the maiden voyage manifest there were 348 1st class passengers, 294 second class passengers and 708 3rd class passengers. However the figures you gave are not correct, they are just est. Here are the lists of each and every 1st class, 2nd class an 3rd class passenger. You will find EVERY passenger listed and the EXACT fare they paid.
1st class http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/manifest.php?tpc=1&grp=P&mv=Y&v1=l_class&v2=1&t=First+Class+Passengers 2nd class http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/manifest.php?tpc=1&grp=P&mv=Y&v1=l_class&v2=2&t=Second+Class+Passengers 3rd class http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/manifest.php?tpc=1&grp=P&mv=Y&v1=l_class&v2=3&t=Third+Class+Passengers Even on her maiden voyage the 3rd class out numbered the 1st class over 2 to 1. Not to mention the 2nd class was slightly less than 50 people fewer than 1st class. As you check all manifests on Olympic you notice the "new" wore of soon and 1st class passenger numbers dropped off drasticly while 3rd class numbers increases by 25% over the years. All you need to do is read minutes of White Star board meeting and you will find reference to the profits of 3rd class over 1st class mentioned over and over. Yes you can find websites that will "contrary" this info but do the math yourself as well as some thinking on your own, don't believe anything you read if you can't verify it and you well easily see that White Star knew where it's profits came from and why they targeted them. As you yourself said it would take 3 third class passengers to generate the revenues of 1 first class. And over the years you see Olympic regularly ran a 5 to 1 of 3rd class ratio according to manifests. And last you need to factor in the cost to pamper the 1st class from extravagance meals, extra porters, cooks, waiters, laundry, house keeping and security. The cost of furnishing the first class room itself was astonishing. Go back and reread 3rd class menus and figure a basic cost profit ratio and see were money was made. |
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Posted on: 2005/5/16 2:30
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #19 |
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Joined: 2005/3/14
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on those sites. what duz body mean? it couldn't mean that those were the ppl who died. there wasn't enough of them. duz that tell who survived?
i'd hav to agree with Captain_Jack. If you look at the rate of travel, the First-class passengers hav already traveled on their fancy ship. now they're going to go to America and waste money on something else. while the 3rd-class passengers r coming to America to start a new life. a lot of ppl were coming to America. once they got here and saw how much "better" it was then back in Europe. they would send for relatives. plus meal costs were less too. the First-class required much more elegant rooms, meals, etc. so it cost more. whereas the third-class passengers were used to moldy food and such. they didn't need great quality food, and when they saw how "great" the food was, they could convince relatives to come to America with them. if u look at the stats, it was the poor ppl who were imigrating to America. some rich ppl, Yes. but mostly poor ppl. in the longrun the 3rd class was better profit. |
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Posted on: 2005/5/16 10:36
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Re: What did the Titanic passengers eat? | #20 |
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Hello,
First of all, excuse this relatively short post. I did do a more lengthy one setting out my arguments in more detail, but naturally my computer froze before I could post it! (Such is life.) Quote:
I am well aware of the lists you cite. Daniel's analysis, if I remember correctly, wasn't only applicable to the figures for Titanic's maiden voyage. Contrary to what you appear to think, I wouldn't expect the passenger figures on a maiden voyage to remain constant for subsequent voyages, and was not expecting that in this instance. Quote: Even on her maiden voyage the 3rd class out numbered the 1st class over 2 to 1. Not to mention the 2nd class was slightly less than 50 people fewer than 1st class. As you check all manifests on Olympic you notice the "new" wore of soon and 1st class passenger numbers dropped off drasticly while 3rd class numbers increases by 25% over the years. I don't see how relevant your statement is about second class? If third class outnumbered first 2-1, then that's still not enough to produce more profit based on the figures I've cited before. I'm aware of Olympic's passenger figures from 1911-35. Meanwhile, what's your source for the 25% increase in third class 'over the years'? It differs from every figure I've seen. Quote: All you need to do is read minutes of White Star board meeting and you will find reference to the profits of 3rd class over 1st class mentioned over and over. Please cite some specific examples. As it happens, I've only read minutes from 1929-31, and one from 1912, since so much of the line's archive no longer exists. Quote: Yes you can find websites that will "contrary" this info but do the math yourself as well as some thinking on your own, don't believe anything you read if you can't verify it and you well easily see that White Star knew where it's profits came from and why they targeted them. I've not mentioned any websites. As it happens, I don't call surfing the internet 'research' and I do my own research through the primary sources available. I don't believe anything I read, and indeed IIRC Michael Tennaro praised both my critical analysis and original research when he reviewed my first book in 2004. Quote: As you yourself said it would take 3 third class passengers to generate the revenues of 1 first class. And over the years you see Olympic regularly ran a 5 to 1 of 3rd class ratio according to manifests. Please cite some examples. Taking 1924 as a year at random (and because I have the figures to hand), Olympic carried twice as many first class passengers as she did third class passengers. And, this before a full year's immigration restrictions had kicked in. What you say is certainly not true for any of the years from the 1930s. Quote: And last you need to factor in the cost to pamper the 1st class from extravagance meals, extra porters, cooks, waiters, laundry, house keeping and security. The cost of furnishing the first class room itself was astonishing. Go back and reread 3rd class menus and figure a basic cost profit ratio and see were money was made. Yes, I am aware of the varying costs for each class (as my original post said: 'the expense figures would logically vary from class to class. ') However, you haven't cited any monetary figures to back up your argument. As for the menus, they don't have any food prices on them, or the necessary revenue/expenditure analysis we would need. I've replied to your posts in the Olympic thread, and the watertight door debate -- in case you had missed them, as I noticed you hadn't replied. Best wishes, Mark. |
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Mark Chirnside, Warwickshire, England. 'RMS Olympic: Titanic's Sister.' |
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Posted on: 2005/5/16 11:13
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