Ok. Im gonna lay this down on the line once and for all. First off, I personally, would love to see the titanic raised off the ocean floor. I mean, yes, that is disrestpect to the people that died. But think for a minute what respect means in america today. It doesnt mean a dam thing to people. People will do anything for money at any cost these days. Disrespect is amongst the world like never before, why should we start caring now when you hear of raising the titanic? Them people are long fukin gone. And for those of you who keep saying it cant be raised, OMG where in the fukin helll have you been? Fukin mars? This is the year of 2006. Think about that number for just a minute. 2006 This is the future people. Technology is growing rapidly like never before. If they can send people to work and live in space, they can raise an old asss ship off the bottom of the ocean. Ok, now you may ask, if that is so, then why havnt they done it? If your thinking because it will cost too much money, YOUR WRONG. The simple fact of the matter is, NOBODY WANTS TOO. I mean yea, you people on the internet sit and talk about raising it all day and dreaming about it. But out in the real world, nobody really cares about the titanic no more. In fact, in a couple of years, titanic will be forgoton about. Yes i know its sad, i hate to see such a legend that was once the most powerful thing created by the hands of man, crushed into a small tiny folk tale. I mean, i grew up knowing what the titanic was. Who hasnt? You can ask anybody what the titanic is and they can at least come up with, " A ship that hit an iceburg and went down ". But when we get old and have grandchildren, you can ask them what the titanic is, and they will wonder wtf your talkin about. Its gone folks, all we have now is a select few people who still have memories and feelings for the titanic. But in a few years, it will all be washed away into an old childrens tale from the sea.

For those who still want to raise the Titanic, check this out. I found this just today. It's wallpaper for the movie "Raise The Titanic"!

For those who say leave the poor ship alone (like me), check it out anyway. Raise The Titanic was made before the wreck was discovered, so there's a bunch of inaccurate things (Titanic is in one piece is the biggest one). Still, I thought it was cool wallpaper. By the way, the pic is 1024x768. If your screen has a bigger resolution, I believe you can "stretch" it without it being too distorted.

Attached file:   titanic.jpg (274.90 KB)

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we took enough, disturbed enough. let it be. we should develope better submarines and underwater cameras so we can study her from that without disturbing anything.

Yeah Robert, take a look at the most recent pictures of the bridge area.

The Telemoter is acutally leaning a little bit, and the flooring around it is broken apart, as if a submersable's arm was trying to bend it back and forth hoping it would break off like a tree limb!

Say What?! I didn't hear of the telemotor incident. Wow! I worry about what'll happen to her in the future. I mean, what's next? The next dive team goes down to find graffiti painted on her sides? This is what I mean about disrespecting the wreck. Sad, really.
If I recall right, the bell was taken from the debris field.

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It would be impossible to salvage the titanic from the ocean floor. It would probably crumble and be in worse shape then it already is. It's meant to stay there undisturbed. And thats how it should remain.

i had the privilge of meeting mr. robert ballard and he was angry about the artifacts being taken...with little or no respect to the wreak or the lost. He said there are times he wishes he had never found it....people now a days are drawn to the wreak,not to honor those lost but just to see how much money they can make. I gues it's a no win situation...to salavge means some damage will be done, but we will have something from the Titanic to show others...but not to salvage means we lose everything. It is a sad fact to this whole thing.

That's interesting Robert!

Yes, I totally agree about the distruction of the ship's mast, as well as the rest of the distruction of the hull. That was uncalled for. I guess Ballard observed that someone tried unsuccessfully to rip off the telemoter on the bridge as well.

You know, unfortunately, Pandora's box has already been opened. With all of the millions of dollars that is locked away in Titanic and no police force to really guard her, illegal salvage is something I think we are going to see more and more of.

Lets just hope that she does not end up like the Lusitania and have artifacts like her propellers made into golf clubs or wind up in a Welsh junkyard.

By the way, since you worked with the artifacts, can you tell me where they got the ship's bell from? Did they tear it off of the mast as well? Or did they pick it up in the debris field? The reason I ask is because I do not see it in the pictures of the mast and remaining crow's nest that Ballard took in 85-86.

Ah, yes the pocket watch. I knew this would come up soon or later. I think that's the only exception for the salvaging of artifacts. If your going to salvage personal artifacts from the Titanic passengers, they should contact living relatives. I was glad Edith got her father's watch back. What bothers me is when salvagers go down and disrespect the wreck. I was a tour guide for Titanic The Exhibition in 1996 (The traveling exhibit that started in Memphis, TN), and things, like the mast marker light, always choked me up. I knew how the salvagers RIPPED it off the mast and in doing so, knocked into the crows nest. I was really upset over that. There's other artifacts that were torn from the wreck, but I think that the mast light is better known. It wasn't necessary to get the light, it would've been better to snap a picture. It was total disrespect for the wreck.
By the way, I know about the new rules put in place because of this incident, but I still get hot under the collar when I hear of MORE artifacts being brought up.

Tigro,

I agree with you that the victims can be honored by learning about them. But the problem with many of them is that there is not much known. Many passengers, especially 3rd class, packed up everything they owned on earth on the crossing.Therefore, some today have been largely forgotten by the sands of time because of this. Their surviving relatives have either died or knowledge was lost generation after generation.

I think of that scene from "Schindler's List", where the Nazi workers at the train station were confiscating the Jew's luggage and throwing their letters, postcards and thousands of family pictures into a pile to throw away. Everything about them was destroyed as the Haulocost intended to do.

In a way, the Titanic tragedy did this to many people, I mean, entire families were lost in 3rd Class. In Southampton, almost every street had a person died on the ship.

But as I stated to rip1912 and lilcandycane, I guess what I have done is try to rationalize a good aspect of salvaging, that is, honoring the memory of the forgotten or unknown (not even personal objects like pocket watches and such, just paper goods).

But in doing this, maybe we who find no objection to this are indeed putting our own selfishness of wanting to know about the lost above the respect of their grave.

Many survivors, like the late Eva Hart were against salvaging for this reason. However, survivor Edith Brown Heisman and her daughter were aparently apreciative when her father's pocket watch was salvaged, treated and preserved, and presented back to her in a display case.

Other shipwrecks have been protected but have still had salvage operations. The Edmund Fitzgerald, which sank in Lake Superior in 197--- ???, is protected from large scale salvage, but, they have salvaged the ship's bell to make into a memorial on land (they put a new bell with the crew's names on them back on the shipwreck).

I think the grave question is a problem for the Titanic, because of it's facination, and for the fact that it is not protected like the Fitzgerald, U. S. S. Arizona, or H.M. S. Royal Oak in Scapa Flow.
If we are really going to make it a "tomb" under some form of international law with all of the rights and respects thereof, then we need to stop going into the tomb every time we visit it. Out of respect for the dead, no one goes into the Arizona or Edmund Fitzgerald, no matter how many maritime or World War II buffs want to see their interiors.

As a matter of fact, the Arizona has been sturring controvercy because of her decay and the fact that when her fuel bulkheads go, she could release all of her remaining oil at once, instead of a little at a time as she does now. Some people say this is "the ships blood" and reminds us of her tragedy. Others say that the ship's fuel should be pumped so that the harbor and it's marine animals will not be harmed.